Suspension questions.....

So I've always been a fan of S10's, particularly the 82-93, and I just scored a 1993 short bed single cab with the 4.3 5-speed combo for $100!!!! I have had 2 in the past and still have a DJM leaf and block kit for the back. Last time I had one I wanted it as low as possible, and I was a happy man! Now I'd like to make it handle.

So naturally I have questions.... I see everyone talking of UB machine upper arms, C10 ball joints, tall ball joints, Corvette brakes, ZQ8 this and that, delrin bushings, spring rates, and all the like. What is the benefit of C10 ball joints, are these being referenced as "tall" ball joints? I would think tall joints  on the lowers would raise the spindle... How much? Is there a reason people seem to run Bell-Tech over DJM parts? Can I use Corvette brakes with drop spindles, or do they have to be ZQ8? I see Moog sells ZQ8 replacement front coils, where can I find the leafs? Are my DJM leafs anything close to ZQ8's? The questions go on and on...

I want to end up with an everyday driver that can road course or autocross, and I wont cry if it rides stiff. After an hour of reading posts here, I"m thinking; Zq8 springs, leafs, shocks, bump stops, sways, anti wheel hop shock, and steering gear. Add the UB uppers, "tall" lower ball joints, some good tires and wheels, and BOOM!.... Goodbye pesky Porsche's!

Any helpful links, input, criticism, ideas would be much appreciated. I'm excited to be back in a S10, and looking forward to modding it and hopefully making some friends here! Thanks guys!!

Basically (and i know the others can explain better than i can probably) the tubular upper control arms are shorter than the stock ones.  The stock ones actually create positive camber when you go into a turn (the top of the tire sticks out farther than the bottom) which means you have less tire patch making contact with the road.  The new arms allow the suspension to go into negative camber in a turn which allows more tire to contact the road.   

The taller ball joints (usually around a 1/2" taller than stock) make adjustments to the roll center of the truck and also help with the camber curve of the control arms.  The upper joint is more important for handling than the lower joint but the lower joint is the one that will allow you to lower the truck another 1/2". 

For the brakes, you can use vette brakes on drop spindles but you have to buy the adapter kits and modify the spindles for them to fit.

Welcome to the site! Nice to see someone that doesn't know everything for once.

Tall lower ball joints help with bump steer and camber curve, tall uppers only help with camber curve. Rentedmule can answer alot better then I can. I know on paper what it should be.  He runs it, and beats the fuck out of it. He knows....

Basically (and i know the others can explain better than i can probably)  The upper joint is more important for handling than the lower joint but the lower joint is the one that will allow you to lower the truck another 1/2".

You are incorrect. The lower is more important. The S10 steering arms are 5/8" to low for proper bump steer. Tall lowers (1/2") almost fixes that. Almost all of the G body/ S10 frontend short cominigs can be fixed via the lower ball joint. haha, At least it aint a first gen mustang...

lol, I stand corrected I guess.

like i said, the others can answer better than i can.

I'm so stoked! First off thank you guys for the input... Second I just scored an ENTIRE suspension out of a 02 extreme s10 at a local yard! Steering box, coils, leafs, bilsteins, sways, even bump stops for $150!!!! Can't wait to get started! I'll put up before and after pics. 

That's a bad ass deal!

I was happy. I couldnt even find a steering box for under $140. I have to go back and get the antihop shock tomorrow, i forgot to put that on the list for the guy to pull..., do you know if the zq8 box bolts up to the stock steering shaft and all? Can I literally just bolt in the box with no other mods??

Make sure to grab the rear frame mounts for the rear sway bar.  While you're under the bed try to grab the frame brace that goes under the front of the bed over the gas tank. 

for reference:

bracket:


frame brace:



$150 is a really awesome deal.  wish I could find a deal like that.  Most the yards around here think their parts are made of gold.

The guy at the yard is pulling it all, i told him all related hardware and mounts.... I'll see if it's all there tomorrow, if not I'll have him pull it all including brace. The truck is complete, is there anything else I should ask for?

yup, zq8 box is a bolt-in

What is the benefit of C10 ball joints, are these being referenced as "tall" ball joints?

C10 ball joints are 3/8" taller than s10 ball joints, they are the same as s10 joints other than the mounting pad. these were popular to use before dedicated tall ball joint came out. and are now just the cheaper option assuming you have the proper upper arms to bolt them to.

I would think tall joints  on the lowers would raise the spindle... How much?

it does. 3/8" with c10, 1/2" with the tall s10 joints

Is there a reason people seem to run Bell-Tech over DJM parts?

my opinion is that beltech makes better quality parts, their spring rate also seem closer to what they should be. also look into western chassis parts

Can I use Corvette brakes with drop spindles,

you can do any of the brake swaps (don't forget about Camaro, blazer, etc) on either stock or drop spindles

 

or do they have to be ZQ8?

there is no such thing as zq8 spindles. all 2wd s10 spindles are the same.


 

I see Moog sells ZQ8 replacement front coils, where can I find the leafs? Are my DJM leafs anything close to ZQ8's? The questions go on and on...

good question

Are my DJM leafs anything close to ZQ8's?

that kind of depends on which djms you have, but from what I know, no not really

you can run Camaro brakes as well. I prefer the Camaro caliper as it has bigger pistons(45mm vs 40mm), I am running a 13" C5 rotor with Camaro calipers on my truck. i have made and posted plans for each bracket, i also make and sell them. PM me if youd like a set, or make your own.

C5 with 12.74" rotors
http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f14/c5-corvette-front-disc-swap-bracket-plans-drawing-517683/
ls1 Camaro/firebird. lots of good information in this thread
http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f14/ls1-firebird-camaro-front-disc-swap-bracket-plans-drawing-updated-3-23-a-512187/

Thanks for all the info! I've been researching non stop since I picked up the truck, sounds like next thing is UB Machine uppers, tall S10 upper and lower ball joints, and Spohn spindles for the extra 1/2" drop over bell techs... Or whatever I find worn out in the 180,000 mile front end! You guys ALL rock, thanks so much!

So next round of questions.... I spoke with Cody at UB Machine, and he said they can make the uppers with teflon bushings for $143 each. Has anyone seen or used teflon? How does it compare to the metal on metal type, or to Delrin? At this price they are comparable to the base level Spohn uppers. Is the geometry better on the UB's, or on the Spohn's? It seems to fork out the money for teflon or delrin up front, may save money down the road on maintenance and replacement on the metel types. Also do the UB's use S10 bushings, or their own design, I should have asked Cody while I had him on the line.... Also I'm seeing some say stock lower control arms with good bushings and ball joints are fine, any opinions on that? I want to keep my cost down, but also believe in doing it right the first time!

Full disclose - I have never so much as heard of UB machine using teflon bushings in their UCAs until just now.

However, we do use some teflon bushings at work and I would not ever utilize them in my suspension, far too brittle. It does stand up to the elements, heat and chemicals extremely well. But I can't count how many times it's been chipped, flaking or missing when the part comes to us and we have to replace the bushing or bearing it was on.

Good to know, I'd never heard it either, which is why I asked. I'll call them back to find out if the arms use a stock size bushing, if so then I want delrin, if not, more research! Thanks for the help!

Teflon bushings are very thin, they likely just undersize the cross shaft slightly and add it as a liner to the arm.