Bolt in rack and pinion steering. Check it out.

87 SCCA
   
http://www.unisteer.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=8000990-02&Store_Code=UNISTEER

Let me know what you think. It's a little expensive.

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off camber

When that first came out I had sent them some emails looking for info/ price and they never replied. Sent the info questions to the tech dept. and the price question to sales.

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firefighter
   
If you neded the room because of a V8 swap I could see giving up the power steering. To me I doubt it works that much better than the ZQ8 set up I got. If it was power it would be on the list of things to do.

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Bad94
   
I go to the NSRA Nats everyyear, and back in 05 or 06, i was walking around and Unisteer had the S-10 Rack out, so i stopped and started talking to some younger guy, He works there and had one on his DD. I asked how much weight he dropped and he said non Shocked .

So i picked the rack up and WOW HOLY SHIT Shocked , that rack has to be as heavy as a small block.


We changed my bros s-10 to manual, and dropped a few good pounds.



I would STAY away from this setup, too heavy for me.

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greencactus3

so its heavy, not powered, and expensive....
awesome...

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hardline_42

I think most people swtich to manual steering to ditch the PS pump for weight savings and the belt drag on the engine. Ironically, I had a manual S10 box on my '81 camaro that I used to replace the factory power setup. It's nice to have the extra room in the engine bay and one less system to have to worry about. Manual racks are also nice for the same reasons but you get the benefits of the rack and pinion. Having driven both manual racks and boxes as well as power, I'd have to say that while a manual rack would be good in a drag car or even a hardcore daily driver (I drove my '93 Z everyday without power steering and 275mm front tires) for any kind of handling gains I think you'd be better off with an IROC steering box and a Turn One pump or similar setup.

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firefighter
The ZQ8 box is essentially an old Camaro Z28/Iroc box. I wouldn't mind a power rack though.

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off camber

I gave up on the R/P. Just going to get a Lee 12:1 box and call it done.

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87 SCCA

Thanks for the comments. I'm using the old Vega box on my truck. I guess I'll stick with it.

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HectorM52

   87Wildside wrote:
   I gave up on the R/P. Just going to get a Lee 12:1 box and call it done.


Don't give up yet. I'm gonna figure it out one day. There's got to be a rack we can use.

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87 SCCA

I am going to try and use a Wilwood/Sweet type rack and pinion from a dirt track car.

off camber

I thought of doing something like this but I don't have the time. Maybe some day.



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firefighter

I would be interested if there was a lighter (than stock set up) and power assisted. I'm a little worried about the weight that is going to get added to the front of the truck with the Eaton. I think when the motor get built one of the later phases of the truck I'm gona try and get either some Brodix or Bowtie heads to help shave weight I'll have to get a classic style manifold cut down but it might be worth it, I really like the balance of the truck now. Besides if I'm gonna be adding/removing weight I wanna shift more towards the rear. I wonder what the balance is now? Hmmmm anybody got racing scales around here.

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87 SCCA

Run it across some truck scales. Just mark the center of your frame front to back. Put the mark on the edge of the scales. Do the front and then do the back.

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firefighter

that's and idea.......

You so smart. I like that idea!

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off camber

   87Wildside wrote:
   I thought of doing something like this but I don't have the time. Maybe some day.





Been thinking more about this and I almost positive it would screw up the ackerman.

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Hammer Head

..gotta be some way to get R&P & still retain the PS. That's my problem.. if I go w/ a R&P setup I still need to run the PS pump for the hydroboost so what would the point be to run a manual rack. Someone out there has to see the light..

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firefighter

Like most things with this truck we gotta build it. I'm doing the blower, who gets this?

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HectorM52

   Hammer Head wrote:
   ..gotta be some way to get R&P & still retain the PS. That's my problem.. if I go w/ a R&P setup I still need to run the PS pump for the hydroboost so what would the point be to run a manual rack. Someone out there has to see the light..


That's perfect. Eliminate our big fatty steering gear and get the better braking!!

I personally WANT the manual R&P. The feel of R&P is just superior to our big boxes. Or at least my experience with my old Z28. And even in my Civic & Corolla. It's just smoother and gives more feedback. If I could get a relatively heavy feel - not too heavy, but not too light - out of a manual rack from ANY car, I would be happy.

I have a thread over on SSF that I started several months back about R&P and honestly it just fell by the wayside because I was starting to get focused on the suspension upgrade. Once I get the spindles on I'll maybe start to focus on it again...

Maybe we need to wake that thread up again.

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hardline_42

Why not just use a 4th gen F-body R&P setup and fab up a center-link-type bracket like the one pictured a couple posts up? You can mount the inner tierods wherever you need them to maintain steering geometry. I don't have the time to look into it, but I have a 4th gen Z28 sitting in my garage that I can take some measurements from if anyone is interested.

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HectorM52

Why?

Good question.

[begin rant]

It seems that 99.999999% of the sport truck fans on these sites are against R&P.

Why? Because you can spend $750 and have an AWESOME "stock-type" setup.

OR you can spend the $1050 and have an above-average Unisteer setup.


No, wait, I forgot that don't have that kind of cash laying around. My budget is DONE for the next year or so (unless I win the lottery). So why is it such a bad thing to look around and try to find a R&P that will work? I'm not sure but apparently I'm part of the .00000001% of people who think that way.

Go to pro-touring.com and check all the posts from people with old Chevelles & Montes asking about racks. The response is AMAZINGLY biased.

This is what it seems like to me... ...it's 1969 and my Camaro has 4-wheel drums on it. And there's a way to adapt some nice disc brakes to the front end and the rear end. But everyone says "you can put some better pads on these drums and they'll work just fine." Is this not a similar situation? YES.

So I'm gonna have to go out on my own and figure out a better way.

[/end rant]

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off camber

I would love to do a R/P but I keep coming up with 2 major problem. First is the bump steer issue. You have to run a rack that mounts the tie rods towards the center, if you were to use a traditional rack bump steer would be f*cked.

Second is ackerman. I had original thought of coping the flaming river rack show a few post back but the engine crossmember is to far forward. That would push the R/P and the tie rods forward changing ackerman. Now you could cut the crossmember to make the rack fit ( no idea about steering linkage) but if you ever plan on an LSx swap you wouldn't have to much left of the crossmember. If I find out for sure that an oil pan clears and won't drag on the ground I am more then willing to cut the front of the crossmember.

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HectorM52

I guess I'll have to do some research on "ackerman." What is that?

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off camber

Basically your inside tire turns more then the outside tire. Both front tire follow a different path around a turn. If you change the ackerman you will lose traction at the front tires because they will be fighting each other in the turn.

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off camber

http://www.auto-ware.com/setup/ack_rac.htm

http://www.rctek.com/handling/ackerman_steering_principle.html

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firefighter

Hey don't get me wrong I would love to have a rack but I just don't want the truck to gain weight and I want power. Otherwise I don't see a reason to lose the stock set up. I mean give me all of the advantages of a rack and keep the use of the factory set up. And I'm all over it.

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HectorM52

I know what Dan said above - but the rack only weighs 38 pounds. Check the Unisteer site.

I'd be willing to be that we could find a similar setup off of SOME vehicle and adapt it to work keeping a similar weight.

Eliminate the steering gear + the center link/idler arm/inner tie-rods and I bet you're about 25 pounds AHEAD of the game.

And as for a rack that mounts the tie rods towards the center... ...I'm not sure about that. I would think that as long as the tie-rods mount in a SIMILAR place to the stock setup, you'd be okay. Is that not right?

Personally, my LT1 setup does not require me having to cut into the crossmember. So cutting off the skid-plate area of the frame would not be a problem for me. I would just weld in some stiffeners inside the frame (where I cut the "ear" off) then weld it shut PROPERLY. Then I believe that there would be plenty of room for a rack...

Again, I'm not totally sure. Just throwing ideas out there trying to get some feedback (besides "go with a Lee's box"). I get enough of that type of feedback already.

What do you guys think about that?

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off camber

An alignment tech would be a good person to talk to find a center steer/ front steer rack. They would know what would have that.

I'm not against a R/P setup. Just too much other stuff going on with the truck.

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off camber

I did find this some time ago

http://www.trzmotorsports.com/7888fr.htm

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firefighter

Okay so lets say you don't gain weight you actually lose weight b/c you get rid of the box and all of the linkage but I still want power I got some big azz tires on my truck and I hate having to give it two tries to get into a spot. Mad

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firefighter

   87Wildside wrote:
   I did find this some time ago

http://www.trzmotorsports.com/7888fr.htm



Okay the price is good. I wonder how it compares to the Unisteer one. But still NO POWER.


On a side note I've been looking into C3's and Unisteer makes a kit for the Stingray Vettes but there was considerable complaints/problems with the brackets on the Unisteer kit flexing too much even to the point of the brackets breaking. Shocked

Disclaimer most of the complaints came from guys who track their car.

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off camber

That one wouldn't work for me either because of the no power thing.

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firefighter

Here is a stupid question...... Is it that hard to find a power rack? What is the real hold up? the width? To be honest IDK too much about the R&P set up's basically just what I've read here and on the forum.

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off camber

From my end it's the placement of the inner tie rod ends.

firefighter

Yeah but what affects that? The overall width of the unit? I mean isn't there a company that makes a universal power unit? Like Flaming River? I'm sure there is one or two of us that is crafty enough to get one and weld something up. Or is it a price point gimmick?

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Hammer Head

That link to TRZ Motorsports R&P kit.. I asked the guy a while back what the deal was.. If I could get it in pwr R&P instead of a manual unit. He replied that there was no way because that's a custom rack. So here's my thing.. if it's custom why not do a custom pwr rack? anyways..

Anyone think about using a center steer rack from a lumina.. skylark.. whatever..? I still say check into those & something should come of it.

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off camber

look

http://www.colemanracing.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=2_122

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firefighter

is that something we can work with? if so lets get someone on it.

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off camber

I just sent them an email asking for the dimensions, operating PSI and input spline count and size. I also asked if they had CAD drawings they could send. This r/p looks like it could be usable and it's not that pricey.

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firefighter

Just so I can help look what are the dimensions/specs we are looking for?

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off camber

Dunno Mr. Green

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firefighter

Well that frickin helps. Razz

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off camber

LMAO

I'm going to measure how much room is between the front frame rails and sway bar placement on Thursday. Also measure the center link.

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firefighter

is that really all we need to know?

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HectorM52

I think we need the dimensions between the pivot points throughout the suspension. I'll have to draw it up later...

...someone needs to take a picture like this. Then just draw on the dimensions between each major point. Like where the center link intersects each inner-tie-rod. Then from that point out to the outer-tie-rod pivot.

If it weren't bedtime, I'd be tempted to go out there and measure. Someone else needs to draw it up (convert this picture to a "dimensioned" sketch) and post it up in a sticky. Remember we need very precise measuring. Very accurate dimensions. CENTER LINE of the pivots will work best.


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HectorM52

Oh, and since you're going to ask. No, that's not my pic. And it's from an Explorer ~'96 I think. Check my thread over on SSF for a link to this guy's posts. I believe there are some good threads on SYTY and S-Series.org...

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off camber

I have that pic saved. One problem. That's on a 4x4 or AWD truck. On the 2wd trucks the inner tie rods are between the pitman arm idler arm. Also in that guys thread it mentions drawing an imaginary line from the UCA pivot to the LCA pivot and the inner tie rod should be centered on the line. It's wrong.

http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36762

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off camber

   firefighter wrote:
   is that really all we need to know?
It's more involved then that but it's enough info to tell if this rack could work or not.

BTW, I'm not going Thursday. Sold some parts and still waiting for payment before I ship and the parts are there.