The leaf spring thread:

here's a tech article from the old forum:

http://www.bedfordspeedway.com/toolbox_leaf.htm

and I just found that Calvert racing (makers of CalTracs), makes a "split mono leaf" for our trucks and figured I'd share.

http://calvertracing.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=5

mostly for drag racing, they only have spring rates from 200-225 lbs. 



just figured I'd use it as a starting point for a leaf spring setup tech thread. 

That tech article is originally an AFCO tech article. I'm not sure who wrote it or when it was written, but it agree's with almost everything I've ever learned about leafs, so I'm pretty impressed with it personally.

One thing to keep in mind on S10's is that the leafs are parallel and inline with the chassis. That's done one pretty much all trucks to give them the most flexibility in the rear. It doesn't help with ride comfort or load handling at all, just makes them  more capable in rougher terrain because the axle can deflect more to handle rocks or dips or lost of roll. It's BAD for handling. If you're keeping leaf springs, which a lot of people are for cost reasons, myself included at first, there are a lot of budget improvements you can make.

Sliders are a big one. They install in place of the shackle at the rear of the leaf spring and eliminate a lot of un-necessary movement from the axle. Compressing a leaf spring with a fixed front always means that you're going to get some front and back axle travel, however with a shackle that is compounded because the shackle is mounted at an angle and rotates as the spring compresses, a slider eliminates any excess movement by limiting spring eye movement to forward and backwards only.

Bushings! Leaf spring bushings wear out fast, especially in a loosely set-up rear like most trucks have. Rubber isn't exactly the most sturdy material and in a loosely set-up leaf spring suspension there is a lot of lateral axle movement which wears out bushings, there's no two ways about it. However, Poly bushings are going to create bind because they create friction against steel, a well documented fact. Properly lubricated they can work fine, but let's be honest, how many of us are going to check that they're greased nearly often enough, especially in hot climates(literally every week is ideal). Delrin is the next step up in rigidity and it self-lubricates against steel very well, but I can not recommend it for both ends of your leaf springs if it's a daily driver, especially if combined with sliders. You will likely get an excess amount of road noise and will pick up a lot of feel from the rear(read you'll feel a lot more of what you're driving over with them). The last option is a metal bushing of some kind. Aluminum is popular, and a pivoting joint is a little known alternative that is very effective. The <a href="http://www.speedwaymotors.com/AFCO-Pivoting-Chrysler-Type-Front-Leaf-Spring-Bushing,23537.html?parentDisplayId=26275">pivoting joint</a> allows a lot of longitudinal rigidity without causing binding which can be an issue, especially with a lot of toe-in to the leafs.

Different styles of leafs can do a lot of different things. Mono-leafs and multi-leafs are the two basic kinds, but there are also different materials and styles of each type of leaf, way more information on this than I'll likely ever have. Two things I'll mention quickly. Steel springs can break, and if you have a mono-leaf, that means that you're not only losing springs that hold your vehicle up, but you're also losing what's locating your axle at the same time, SCARY. And finally, don't forget to look at your spring frequencies, not just spring rates, this goes for all suspensions, but people tend to neglect it especially with leaf springs.

That's all some very interesting information, as for my self, I'm just waiting until I can save up about 2 grand plus and getting a watts link or something in the future, leafsprings as Artos stated, are cheap, easy to make, and multipurpose, and can be built to handle loads easily. IMO, this stuff is cool to know, but it's kind of like S10 guys who build a 2.2L engine(no offense to 2.2 guys), but there comes point where I think you have to face the facts of the characteristics inherent to the platform, and look towards a total redesign of the system(turbo/complete rebuild), or adopting a different system(swap). That's how I look at my blazer now, consider nothing in the interior except for the panels, carpet, and dash is stock. There's alot of aspects to the trucks that the factory spend too little time engineering IMO, as they're generally cheaper vehicles. Take the front of s10s for examples, $10 of home depot weatherstripping and you and fill in alot of gaps that can't be good for aerodynamics. You can also take advantage of some of the flaws of  designs and utilize them to your advantage, such as the insane lightweight of my fiberglass springs.

Anyways I just think that leafsprings for handling application without some additional linkage of some sort just isn't a good platform. They do work, my blazer despite needing alot of tuning in the suspension and engine pulls times at autocrosses that rival evo 8/9s, s2000s, 240s, and other quick cars, but I think there's alot more potentional that is limited by the leafs. Monoleafs, although light, should be used pretty much only on track cars I think, although this is coming from a broke recent college graduate who's been rolling on all fiberglass leafs for almost 2 years.

I hope my flex-a-forms hold until I can get a link setup

Fiberglass rear leafs are one thing I won't touch personally, seen one pop under load before and will not put them on my car. I would consider some composite leafs though. Not sure what they're made of, but whatever it is, it's tough. When asking AFCO about them, I was told they have never seen any that have broken, even when over-loaded and sagging.

I actually just wrote a term paper which included fiberglass leaves and i fully agree, They are becoming better with new and exotic materials but the strength and durability is not up to par compared to a conventional metal spring, and what you pay for one, in all honesty arent worth it

i have a question tho- im taking off my belltech leafs (because they suck) and putting my stock z85 springs with a leaf pulled back on.  I saw on s10forum that someone clamped the front of the second largest leaf at rideheight so it would stay in place with the other leaf- the user did this to reduce wheel hop (improve traction) which is a major problem for me with my drop leafs.

Whats your imput on this? are there any other ways to achaieve some more traction for a relatively low cost.

Thanks!

Nick

I actually just wrote a term paper which included fiberglass leaves and i fully agree, They are becoming better with new and exotic materials but the strength and durability is not up to par compared to a conventional metal spring, and what you pay for one, in all honesty arent worth it

i have a question tho- im taking off my belltech leafs (because they suck) and putting my stock z85 springs with a leaf pulled back on.  I saw on s10forum that someone clamped the front of the second largest leaf at rideheight so it would stay in place with the other leaf- the user did this to reduce wheel hop (improve traction) which is a major problem for me with my drop leafs.

Whats your imput on this? are there any other ways to achaieve some more traction for a relatively low cost.

Thanks!

Nick

I have a pair of leaf spring clamps that I have used before at auto-x.  they def reduce wheel hop, stiffen the rear springs, and hurt the ride. 

...they do make for awesome wet weather burnouts (2.2 powa!)

some people say to be careful using them though.

lol 4.3 5 speed can get some better wheel hop going- but why do some say be careful with using them? would the leaf break due to stress?

The clamps cause pressures in the spring in ways that leafs are not normally designed to handle, I definitely would not put them on a daily driver, but only due to how much stiffer they make the springs. Personally, I would look around for a long leaf, off a vehicle with much longer leafs like a full size truck and just replace the second spring with that. The extra length of the spring will help prevent spring wrap and thusly prevent wheel hop.

hmm interesting, - i pulled the 2nd longest leaf out of my z85 pack, not on the truck right now, I have 3" belltechs on my truck. What if i slapped the 2nd longest leaf back on it and pulled the next leaf down, and fabbed up some oe style clamps that hold the spring together (like the third leaf has)- do you think that would cause less wheel hop? or should i just invest in some zq8 leafs?

Nick

I would definitely start be removing the shortest leafs first, that will cause the smallest reduction in spring rate and help keep the springs are resistant to twisting as is possible with the stock leaf packs.

sweet, thanks man

and I just found that Calvert racing (makers of CalTracs), makes a "split mono leaf" for our trucks and figured I'd share.

http://calvertracing.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=5

mostly for drag racing, they only have spring rates from 200-225 lbs. 

Interesting... I've never seen these before.  I wonder how ride quality and load capacity would be with these and helper air springs.


One of the tings I learned by trial and error is that you want the strongest main leaf that you can find.  This will be the most resistant to turning into an "S" under load.

Also you can't go too stiff on the 3rd shock without degrading ride quality.  I think this has to do with the fact that it is introducing bind under suspension travel.  I think the bind could be eliminated with a longer 3rd shock and different mounting point on the frame; treat it as a 4-link and make it parallel with the front spring eye and axle pad.  If that eliminates bind though, then a solid link bar may be the way to go....

What you're describing sounds remarkable like a third link that a lot of dirt track guys use that is essentially a shock absorber mounted as the upper link so that axle wrap is allowed, but controlled. I honestly don't know how that would perform on the road, but I don't happen the like the idea personally, it seems to contradict several of the reasons for going to a linked suspension in the first place, at least for the "pro-touring" or auto-x or road racing suspensions.

What you're describing sounds remarkable like a third link that a lot of dirt track guys use that is essentially a shock absorber mounted as the upper link so that axle wrap is allowed, but controlled. I honestly don't know how that would perform on the road, but I don't happen the like the idea personally, it seems to contradict several of the reasons for going to a linked suspension in the first place, at least for the "pro-touring" or auto-x or road racing suspensions.

I also think that it is wise to stay away from solid links when using leaf springs for locating the axle.

What if the current setup is thought of as more like a two link (with bendable links).  The rear half of the spring is negligible due to the shackles.  The third shock could have the front mounted at the front spring eye bolt, effectively triangulating the two link.  This may need to be done on both sides of the axle though since it would probably change shock dampening...


And then there's the Bam Bar:

I don't think that it would fit under the bed though 

^ thats under a jeep isn't it?

mustang quad shock setup

But aren't Fox bodies a four link? WTF is adding a hop shock going to do?

it all depends on the rest of your suspension. if you have worn out springs and stock replacement shocks with factory control arms, you're going to get wheel hop without them. my bro's car was like that and the guy he bought it off of removed the quads to fit some wider cobra r wheels on it; my bro actually pasted away in the car a few years ago because of losing control due to wheel hop. my car on the other hand has new tokico shocks/struts, upr uppers and lowers and cheap maxspeed springs, i had to remove the quads to fit a 10" wheel out back and i get no wheel hop. in short, there are other factors that can cause your car to have wheel hop or not without them.

Oh. Guess that my answer. ha.

BTW, hop shocks have more in common with a steering damper then a shock. The slow movement in both directions.

But aren't Fox bodies a four link? WTF is adding a hop shock going to do?

it all depends on the rest of your suspension. if you have worn out springs and stock replacement shocks with factory control arms, you're going to get wheel hop without them. my bro's car was like that and the guy he bought it off of removed the quads to fit some wider cobra r wheels on it; my bro actually pasted away in the car a few years ago because of losing control due to wheel hop. my car on the other hand has new tokico shocks/struts, upr uppers and lowers and cheap maxspeed springs, i had to remove the quads to fit a 10" wheel out back and i get no wheel hop. in short, there are other factors that can cause your car to have wheel hop or not without them.

Oh. Guess that my answer. ha.

BTW, hop shocks have more in common with a steering damper then a shock. The slow movement in both directions.

yup, just because its linked doesn't mean things don't flex. all things will have compliance, and when you think of the links as springs (not stiff enough), well, now whats the difference between linked vs a leaf spring setup?
therefore, make everything as stiff as you can afford vs weight

And that's a perfect example of why stamped steel link arms are bad, I've seen quad shock foxes before and for the life of my I can't understand why people don't just re-enforce the mount points and replace the links. A hop shock should not be necessary on a linked suspension, ever, unless it's not been built to handle the loads it'll be taking.

And that's a perfect example of why stamped steel link arms are bad, I've seen quad shock foxes before and for the life of my I can't understand why people don't just re-enforce the mount points and replace the links. A hop shock should not be necessary on a linked suspension, ever, unless it's not been built to handle the loads it'll be taking.

my cousin's fox has drag arms on it, and you should have seen what happened to the chassis mounts after a few 10 sec runs. lol

needless to say, they are reinforced now.