The leaf spring thread:

And that's a perfect example of why stamped steel link arms are bad, I've seen quad shock foxes before and for the life of my I can't understand why people don't just re-enforce the mount points and replace the links. A hop shock should not be necessary on a linked suspension, ever, unless it's not been built to handle the loads it'll be taking.

my cousin's fox has drag arms on it, and you should have seen what happened to the chassis mounts after a few 10 sec runs. lol

needless to say, they are reinforced now.

Ive seen a very agressively driven street car put one of the upper links about half way through the floor, it's a terrible design for anything more than the 250 odd horsepower of the original 5.0.

Back to the original topic - has anyone actually mounted sliders on an s-series?  I searched pro-touring.com and found a few guys with them installed but no one who's actually driven their car with them! 

These are the only ones I've found that look compatible with GM springs:

http://www.circletracksupply.com/product.php?productid=815

Are sliders in general a bolt-on deal or is there more to it than that? 

Back to the original topic - has anyone actually mounted sliders on an s-series?  I searched pro-touring.com and found a few guys with them installed but no one who's actually driven their car with them! 

These are the only ones I've found that look compatible with GM springs:

http://www.circletracksupply.com/product.php?productid=815

Are sliders in general a bolt-on deal or is there more to it than that? 

Yes and no, it will depend a lot on the application. on a vehicle like the S10, yeah, two bolts to mount it to the frame and you should be fine, welding would be preferred, but should be fine with a pair of bolts. Two things to consider, the sliders HAVE to be perfectly parrallel to the spring to prevent binding through movement and make sure you determine their position by where the spring sits with weight on it. I've actually seen someone do it without weight and then wonder why it felt like it was bottoming out constantly with weight on it.

Was just thinking about this the other night and realized that leaf springs cause oversteer during roll. For some reason that had never occured to me. I can't think of another suspension that can put as much power the ground, with as neutral of a roll center and give roll oversteer that is so smooth. I'm keeping my leafs for some time I think.

Was just thinking about this the other night and realized that leaf springs cause oversteer during roll. For some reason that had never occured to me. I can't think of another suspension that can put as much power the ground, with as neutral of a roll center and give roll oversteer that is so smooth. I'm keeping my leafs for some time I think.

isnt that only in stock like ride heights?
if you are on dearched/ softer leafs where ride height is around 'flat', should be roll understeer... if im thinking correctly, but im pretty exhausted now.

i think leaf springs + watts has a lot of potential.

That is a damn good point actually. Hadn't even occured to me actually. Flat leafs on an S10 would be around 4" of drop though, wouldn't it? That's a heck of a de-arch for stock leafs, I think you'd have to go to a shorter main spring by that point.

3" drop springs had my spring eye hitting frame. So they were AIM and I drive like a dick but they had an arch.

You are both correct. Arched down = over steer, especially with the shackle eye mounted higher. Flat, ford, dearched springs have the same problem. I must say, Ford gave a lot more thought to the leaf suspension. Just look at the spring eyes. Damn near level. At least it makes it easier for retards like me to figure geometry. I hate leafs....to many variables.

Doing some research on sliders for the bolt on, budget build Isuzu. I've got a couple thoughts and a couple questions brewing.

First, my reading is leading me to believe it is better to have some flex in the front bushing to accommodate the deformation the spring normally sees from axle twist.  Many of the older muscle car guys running sliders mention this around the internet.  The main suggestion is a pivot or spherical bushing; $money$.  Since I've replaced the control arm bushings with new OEM rubber already, it seems I could/should continue that route to maintain some factory ride, while allowing for flex at the same time.  It may have to be replaced sooner than poly bushings, which aren't a great stand alone option, but rubber seems better suited for the setup.  Besides the $75 cost of the poly bushings I'm using to justify the $125 purchase of sliders (Anyone have a Speedway coupon or promotion? haha)

Other than that I have no idea where to look for a 2" pivot bushing for the front spring eye.  I'm only seeing Chrysler applications available.

I did find one S10 running sliders in my searches.  He's drag racing, but he's driven them.  I have a couple references below.

http://www.s10racer.com/board/showpost.php?p=88879&postcount=5
http://www.s10racer.com/board/showpost.php?p=90725&postcount=36

depending on your spring rate i dont see you needing all that much twist capability up front.
the only twist you need is the angle you get from 1 wheel bump, which i cant imagine is a whole lot.

also, for the cost/effort of sliders, i think a bearing riding beefy shackle might be a better alternative.
(out of the butt estimate of cost/performance gain)

Would it be that much cheaper than a pair of sliders and front bushings?  I'm thinking $150 could have me out the door with those parts.

I could probably scratch up the material to make my own beefy shackles, but would have to use time to make them before bolting on.  I'm not really finding any leaf spring bearings available other than the pivots I mentioned earlier, but I'm guessing they're going to be in the $25-50 range each and I'll still want to replace the other bushings in the leaves, so right back to the same price as the sliders.

Going to the sliders could make for a more harsh ride, but I'd rather not use a solid bushing up front either.

Any other thoughts?

Slider and rubber front, especially if using a stiff spring or a re-enforced front section spring. You need some kind of deflection to reduce binding which will take some of the smoothness out of the travel.

As for harshness, solid rear bushing is a solid rear bushing, doesn't matter if it's on a shackle or a slider.

The main purpose of the slider is to reduce the swing effect of compressing a leave with a shackle and give a more direct springrate than the scissor effect of the shackle.

I'm not quite done with measurements yet on my project, but I'm actually expecting to use a fabricated bolt-on new front spring mount with sliders bolted to the bottom of the frame in the rear with a chrysler spring. It's not quite as low-budget as dropping sliders into the back of the stock springs, but it gives me a lot more springrate options and will allow me to use the pivots in the front.

I am however also slightly concerned about lateral movement with the front pivots and the sliders, so I may end up having to run a panhard as well with that set-up, especially with lighter springs in the rear. Final weights still pending, but I'm looking at between a 200 and 250 lb/in spring for the rear with a modified, much stiffer stock swaybar.

i think a lateral axle locator is a must for a performance leaf sprung suspension anyways.

i didnt realize your list added up to be so low with sliders.

the leaf is longer behind the axle than in front, so the front bushing has a bigger effect on binding/nvh in opposite directions.

how much suspension travel are you guys running? a quick one wheel bump and trig will tell you the angle you are twisintg the leaf, and then a beam in torsion equation (for the main leaf) will tell you roughly how much force you are "using" to twist that leaf (x2) because of the inherent different wheel rates in 2 wheel vs 1 wheel bump for leaf sprung suspension, maybe it's a way to tune the differences?

I'm with you guys on the lateral locator.  Many of the forums I'm reading seem to think the sliders eliminate the lateral movement, but there is still slop especially if the front bushing is kept flexible to account for one wheel bump.

I don't think I will be doing anything immediately to improve the lateral locating on the Isuzu.  I'm going to exhaust the bolt on route of upgrades before fabbing on this truck.  I'd really like to see what can be accomplished without a welder.  The Blazer has and will have plenty enough of the other to satisfy me.

I also think Ryo is right to point out we likely don't have much travel on a performance oriented suspension.  I'm not sure what my travel is.  Seeing as I'm on the soft stock ZQ8 leaves I'm guessing it isn't unsubstantial.  Will have to see how much travel before the bump stop contacts too and maybe do some digging in the archives around work to see if I can come up with any of the original engineering documents.

The other thing I'm reading around the internet is many are bolting the sliders flat to the frame instead of angling them to line up with the front spring eye.  That Afco tech article at the beginning of the thread makes it pretty clear lining the slide up with the front eye helps maintain a more consistent rear roll center; another advantage over the shackle.  Back to Ryo's point, it may not matter much if the suspension travel is limited, but what are your thoughts on mounting flat to the frame or angling the slide to maintain a consistent roll center?

I'll get some bushings ordered up from the dealer and have some sliders on the way soon, either way.

I will be placing the slider flat on the frame for one reason. Quite simply, the change in angle from the front to rear eye is going to change drastically more from the longitudinal movement of the rear eye in travel than the vertical could ever amount to. I am however also relocating the front eye further up the frame to level the eyes as much as possible, and add drop without losing arch and getting into roll understeer in the rear like you get with flat springs in the stock locations. Spring type is really the only thing left completely undecided. I'll see if I can whip together a drawing of the differences and to try and elaborate on their effects in moving the front eye up. 

I'm thinking we are on the same page, but want to clarify.



As the spring compresses, even with the slider angled in line with the front eye, the roll center will travel up the angle.

If the slider is horizontal or flat to the frame, it won't follow such a defined line, but will have a similar path.

More or less, yep.

I finally noticed the rear axle being forward like most people bitch about all the time. Is anyone running set back plate?

I had them on the Blazer.  I've got a second set from Ryo to go on the Isuzu the next time I have it up on the lift.

I'm in the middle of setting up sliders on my blazer. Using ZQ8 springs and shackles I was actually bottoming the shackles out on the frame. Not only was the back end lively during corners with any irregularities, but my back was starting to hurt too! I'm installing the sliders flat on the frame, mostly for ease of installation, but also because of limited expected travel. I've raised my front spring eye roughly 2.5" (as high as I can without floor modifications). Given that the front section of the spring is longer, this has a much more profound effect on RC height. Therefore, I'm not really worried about the flat slider mounting.

BTW, getting those rear spring eye bushings out SUCKED!

Given that the front section of the spring is longer, this has a much more profound effect on RC height.

pretty sure the short side is front of the axle on s-trucks?

also, why are you trying to raise the RC?