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Author Topic: A couple s-10's  (Read 58424 times)

Offline GM
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Re: A couple s-10's
« Reply #100 on: December 12, 2011, 01:26:03 PM »
Thanks for posting that Harley. I think you are right but for some reason I recall the 4wd shocks being significantly heavy. I am probably remembering wrong though.

Re: A couple s-10's

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Re: A couple s-10's
« Reply #101 on: December 12, 2011, 02:38:20 PM »
I still encourage you to weigh it.  Real measurements are always better than just tossing numbers around.

Re: A couple s-10's

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Re: A couple s-10's
« Reply #102 on: December 12, 2011, 04:38:28 PM »
Yes absolutely. Thanks for posting that regardless though. I know I'll be dropping weight going from torsion to coils but the actual number is what has got me very curious.

edit: in a random search I found some good numbers for the 4wd parts.
Quote
Each torsion bar was 17 lbs , the crossmember was 16 lbs , and both torsion keys, bolts ,frame mounts were right at 20lbs . My stock shocks were 5 each

I thought they were a little beefier. They must use a heavier shock for the 4wd capability, off road use. I would imagine this is the case. So that's good another 2lbs off each side in the shocks.

The 2.5"x8" hyper coils I was looking at are 5 lbs a piece.

some quick math

17+ (16/2) + (20/2) + 5= 40 lbs

That sounds about right the stock torsion bar system and shock weighs in at 40 lbs per side. The penske coil over shock + coil weigh in at 8 lbs per side. 32 lbs per side by replacing the torsion bars, that's great and a lot more the I had expected. So the new tally would be

Total Stock weight - 42 lb + 40= 82
Total Modified weight - 18 lb + 8= 26


56lbs per side plus the wheels that's 61 lbs shed off each side. 122 lbs total, that's great never thought I would be able to get that much weight off the front tires with so few parts.

A couple other ideas that I previously mentioned are R&P, brakes (for sure this one) and maybe fiberglass fenders (not sold on this one)

For rack and pinion that would be relatively easy compared to doing a stock conversion. We are making our own steering arms to accommodate for the half shaft so bump steer and ackerman can be easily negotiated.

The 605 steering box and pitman weighs 24 lbs and the rest of the 4wd linkage weighs 17 lbs.


The power steering rack-and-pinion system I've been eyeballing weighs 18 lbs with integrated servo.
So there is roughly 20-25 lbs to be gained there. Plus the benefits of designing the system specifically to suit what I need.

For the calipers and rotors I haven't made up my mind on a size. It will likely be a 12" or 13" rotor and 4 piston caliper maybe 6 if I can find a decent deal.

The stock caliper and bracket are 12 lbs, talk about beefy, + The stock 10.8" rotors at 13 lbs each


Ideally the wilwood calipers I would like to be able to afford are 5lbs and the rotors are 14 lbs. So there is 6 lbs per side to gain there.

I mentioned the fiberglass fenders but I'm still not sold on them. I'm shaving weight but trying to stay away from stripping it. I like to have inner fenders and the ability to bolt stuff to the fenders and am not a big fan of pin on hoods. I don't think the weight savings would be substantial enough to outweigh losing the things I like to have.


 I had an idea of the drop I'll get with the spindles but took some measurements to find out exactly.

To be honest I scratched my head for a few minutes about what to reference and how to measure the drop that would be achieved. Then figuring out how to take into account the larger base of the c5/c6 spindle and the larger taper.

You can see in this picture the stock hub is situated higher up on the stock 4wd spindle. This means it acts more like a drop spindle then the C5/C6 spindle
Stock offset is 3.25" from the base,
C5/6 offset is 2.625" from the base,
So the truck would ride higher by 5/8" with the c5/6 spindle,






Where I am gaining the drop is in the ball-joint orientation.
1.5"


1.75" (added 1/8 because the ball joint taper is much larger on the c5/6 spindle)


1.5+1.75 - 0.625=2.625"

I'll get roughly a 2 1/2" drop over stock with these spindles.

« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 05:08:19 PM by GM »

Re: A couple s-10's

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Re: A couple s-10's
« Reply #103 on: December 12, 2011, 09:25:43 PM »
keep up the good work man, you continue to amaze me with your abilities
'91 Sonoma ~ 5.7L 5spd ~ Project Truck
'99 Sierra 2500 ~ 5.3L 4L60E daily/tow pig

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Re: A couple s-10's
« Reply #104 on: February 16, 2012, 03:53:39 PM »
For some reason I did not see this till about a week ago...... I have been meaning to thank you for all the info. Thank you. :)

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Re: A couple s-10's
« Reply #105 on: February 16, 2012, 07:58:10 PM »
Pretty neat. Sorry I missed this. BTW, the truck you posted in the 1st page is Tink's truck. She's on other sites. Nice truck.
If you can't say anything nice.. post it on the internet!

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Need some parts..? http://protourings10.com/index.php?topic=950.0

Re: A couple s-10's

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Re: A couple s-10's
« Reply #106 on: February 17, 2012, 11:06:21 AM »
Great write up so far. keep up the good work.
What ride height are you expecting up front, and rear I guess too. My rear shocks are also Penske, but no remote rez, and not adjustable, but they are rebuildable and threaded body. Mine also seem much longer front and rear.
"I wanna go fast!"
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Re: A couple s-10's

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Re: A couple s-10's
« Reply #107 on: February 17, 2012, 02:07:25 PM »
I'm fairly sure you've mentioned it, but I don't feel like looking for it, so:

What are you doing for control arms?

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Offline GM
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Re: A couple s-10's
« Reply #108 on: February 17, 2012, 11:10:09 PM »
Thanks for the comments guys. This project hasn't seen any attention or thought for about 6 months now it seems.  I've been so wrapped up in another truck I bought for a daily. Another month or so and it'll start warming up out and I'll get motivated again. Thanks Zach, but as I've said before without my dad I would be lost on a lot of stuff.

Artos, I think I posted some pics on the previous page. I'm going to be running sport machines tubular lowers and spc adjustable uppers. I've got to make up some bushings for the lowers and I think I may just do the uppers as well. I'm not really set on an exact design for them, del-a-lum, solid delrin, spherical bearing. I've got do some more reading on it and decide. I think I've ruled out del-a-lum at this point as I really doubt that both pivots are symetrical to each other.

SCHLAKER, the ride height was a major concern of mine with the stock 4wd geometry. I've seen a few pictures of sy/ty's with 3-4" drop and control arms are not at ideal angles and I can only imagine the bumpsteer issues. With the c5/6 spindles equal a 2 1/2" drop and then I imagine I'll go another 1"-1 1/2" with the coilovers.  Something that I've been playing with is redoing the upper shock mount on the frame. It's not at a great angle and if I do I can set it at a better height as well.


Hammerhead, yea that truck is just nasty. I've read her build thread a few times. It's got be one of my favourite lifted 1st gens. It's so tastefully done.

Kenny, it's not much but thanks. Sorry I've pretty much dropped off the face of the earth as far as a posi front diff goes. So busy right now. Hopefully this spring I can start swinging ideas around again.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 11:15:48 PM by GM »

Re: A couple s-10's

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Re: A couple s-10's
« Reply #109 on: February 18, 2012, 12:54:54 AM »
What are you going to do for adapting the control arms to the Corvette ball joints?

Re: A couple s-10's

Offline GM
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Re: A couple s-10's
« Reply #110 on: February 18, 2012, 02:46:46 AM »
The uppers have a nascar style screw in modular ball joint, so no problem there. The lower balljoints I have are a press in style. I think I'm just going to modify the lower arms to accept them.

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Re: A couple s-10's
« Reply #111 on: February 19, 2012, 07:42:07 AM »
Kenny, it's not much but thanks. Sorry I've pretty much dropped off the face of the earth as far as a posi front diff goes. So busy right now. Hopefully this spring I can start swinging ideas around again.
No problemo my brother, I totally get it......... I just got back to some gainful employment on this end. Listing the weights and showing the design differences has really resurrected interest in old projects. I really wanna refresh some old racing contacts and get some carbon fiber driveshafts.

 I have been waiting to acquire a set of aluminum aluminum spindles that offer a 3-1/4" drop, and an IRS setup that may end up being a bolt-in kit.

 On the posi diff project, I am considering doing some creative machining on a powertrax unit and installing some kevlar (z-pack single sided) clutch plates where the teeth reside now. I wanna get something rolling for the guys on a budget, and use that to fund our no holds barred Quaife unit.

So the next low buck project involves moving the ABS pump, ECM, various powertrain modules, power distribution, and battery to under the rear seat (or the side panels). There is gonna be a plan for some low mounted subwoofers and amp rack as well. Finding a way to to this with best economy of space will be tricky.

There is one more thing that just simply can't be pushed back anymore on my end...... The electric assist power steering! I have got to figure this out, along with a lightweight R&P.....(Cobalt SS?). I just can't get over how well it works.

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Re: A couple s-10's
« Reply #112 on: February 20, 2012, 08:50:52 AM »


Artos, I think I posted some pics on the previous page. I'm going to be running sport machines tubular lowers and spc adjustable uppers. I've got to make up some bushings for the lowers and I think I may just do the uppers as well. I'm not really set on an exact design for them, del-a-lum, solid delrin, spherical bearing. I've got do some more reading on it and decide. I think I've ruled out del-a-lum at this point as I really doubt that both pivots are symetrical to each other.

SCHLAKER, the ride height was a major concern of mine with the stock 4wd geometry. I've seen a few pictures of sy/ty's with 3-4" drop and control arms are not at ideal angles and I can only imagine the bumpsteer issues. With the c5/6 spindles equal a 2 1/2" drop and then I imagine I'll go another 1"-1 1/2" with the coilovers.  Something that I've been playing with is redoing the upper shock mount on the frame. It's not at a great angle and if I do I can set it at a better height as well.

What LCA's are those? Are they the SY/TY ones? If not, where can I find some?
 
Changing the Upper shock mount is a must, but it's super easy, or it should be for you. We cut my original upper mounts off and replaced them with modified frame side 4 link mounting tabs. Basically it's just a piece of .25" plate on both sides of the heim. if you have more than one mounting position, the bolt holes have to be further from the frame up high, and closer to the frame on the lower mounting positions, so the spring collar or the shock body has clearance.
I thought about flipping the shocks, but that wont work after I get rid of the T bars.
I originally did this as a fix because my passenger side upper shock mount was breaking at the weld.
"I wanna go fast!"
2000 Blazer ZR2

Re: A couple s-10's

Offline GM
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Re: A couple s-10's
« Reply #113 on: February 20, 2012, 09:40:14 PM »
Kenny, I've heard some not so good comments about the electric assist steering on the cobalts. I remembered you talking about it a while ago and I mentioned it to a couple guys I know. They buy wrecked ss's, repair and sell them. They were telling me the steering feedback is terrible and were blaming it solely on the electric assist. They said they would take an older style pump any day of the week when it came to racing. I can't attest to that as I haven't driven one but the 2 guys have about 30 years circle track racing so took their word for it.


SCHLAKER, They are Sy/ty ones made by sportmachines. RPM also sells some but I only needed the lowers and sportmachines price was better. The more I think about it the more I am leaning towards redoing the upper shock mounts. I was just planning on doing a small shock hoop. I'm trying to balance the amount of custom work to bolt on stuff. I would like to drive the truck again one day lol.


Since I am here, I was busy with this nightmare of a project since New years,



It's an '82 C20 Southern truck, dana 60, 14 bolt, Cummins 12 valve.

Bought it as a fresh* rebuild and got boned big time. Had a bad headgasket and the rings were fried from overheating.

Check these bearings, fresh eh?


head gasket leak, the thing would blow the rad clean empty in about 30 mins,


Rebuilt the motor completely. All new gaskets, bearings, resurfaced the deck, brand new head fully dressed, polished crank/cam, and 50 other things so it would last a long time.



talk about some rotating inertia. No wonder these motors make 400 ft/lbs.











Got the truck home, decided I really didn't like it. So I traded for this,


'04 Crew Z71, 4wd 3.5. Pretty hyped on it to be honest. It's a killer daily.



I've got a few small things I want to do to it and then my attention can go back to the '84.


« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 10:01:06 PM by GM »

Re: A couple s-10's

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Re: A couple s-10's
« Reply #114 on: February 20, 2012, 10:21:00 PM »
nice!  the colorado/canyon styling has grown on me over the past few years. 
-Jonathan-

MaconRacers

Re: A couple s-10's

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Re: A couple s-10's
« Reply #115 on: February 20, 2012, 11:27:03 PM »
Thats a nice colorado, seems like a good trade to me.

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Re: A couple s-10's
« Reply #116 on: February 21, 2012, 02:08:09 PM »
I would have kept the cummins full size and stuck a flat bed on it and just loved it, but I do like the colorado's quite a bit to be honest.

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Re: A couple s-10's
« Reply #117 on: February 22, 2012, 09:39:30 AM »
Kenny, I've heard some not so good comments about the electric assist steering on the cobalts. I remembered you talking about it a while ago and I mentioned it to a couple guys I know. They buy wrecked ss's, repair and sell them. They were telling me the steering feedback is terrible and were blaming it solely on the electric assist. They said they would take an older style pump any day of the week when it came to racing. I can't attest to that as I haven't driven one but the 2 guys have about 30 years circle track racing so took their word for it.
I may not actually know what steering feedback they are looking for...... My wife's 2LT had the steering reset when there had been a warranty recall over a bad connector, and it has been near perfect. The trick seemed to be good tires (like everything else). It seems there are several pre-programmed steering settings and that setting can be changed. The assist unit doesn't intervene with steering directness because it applies "outside" force to the steering shaft that is a direct connection from the steering wheel to the R&P.

 I would be curious to see what you think after driving one yourself. I know that it is far superior to my old ZQ8 S-10 with a '02 box (bigger t-bar than pre '01), with good bushings, alignment and tires. It is not quite as good as a '08+ Vette, but it's good. With custom tuning it would be a match just because everything is infinitely variable.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 09:41:45 AM by Kenny »

Re: A couple s-10's

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Re: A couple s-10's
« Reply #118 on: February 22, 2012, 10:02:20 AM »
I have driven a pair of the cobalts with electric assist and didn't like them at all, they felt very disconnected from the road as compared to even my 07 full size with a traditional column. There is plenty of feel in the movement, but not nearly as much feedback as I like.

Re: A couple s-10's

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Re: A couple s-10's
« Reply #119 on: February 22, 2012, 01:13:51 PM »
I never really noticed the lack of feedback in my Cobalt SS.  I drove it pretty hard, autocrossed it once and never felt like I wasn't getting enough feeling or feedback.

 

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