[Project] JUST ENUFF

Greetings.
I’ve been lurking forums for many years, looking for inspiration and knowledge to tackle the further modification of my ’91. Now that I’ve started tearing into the beast’s rear suspension, I figured it was time to start joining some forums to use the SEARCH function and narrow down sifting thru miles of useless posts. This seems to be a site more geared to my wants & needs. Many other sites seem to have a lot of people who want big rimmed, frame dragging, “who cares about performance” sorta goals for their truck. I’m not one of those people.

HereÂ’s a little history of my build to this point:
Purchased in 1999(or so)= 1991 std cab 2wd s-10, bought for $800 with a blown 2.2, & 5spd.
In 2000-2001 I started transplanting a rebuilt .10 over 350 engine from a 1973 ¾ ton chev truck.
Used the stock 5 spd (due to budget limitations… and a buddy said it “couldn’t be done”…. HA!.... showed him)
Got an 8” Ford rear end (9” little cousin) from a 65 mustang. Open dif. 3.08 gears. Narrowed to 56” OD.
After many cases of beer and mass amounts of head scratching and troubleshooting (no internet help back then)Â…. Got it running. It was my part time daily driver and now has almost 30k on the new setup. The suspension has rolled pretty much untouched since then (2.2 springs, sway, brakes, leafs, shocks, manual steering). All that power w/ the stock chassis pretty much sucked for anything but a straight line. Lack of funds prevented me from doing any more upgrades until recently.

Which brings me to the present. Time to upgrade the suspension finally!
My “plans”:
REAR- Satchell link (design almost finalized) will be fully adjustable.
Single adj. Qa1 coilovers (purchased from a guy who decided on Varishocks instead for his rodÂ… canÂ’t blame him)
I recently got some bars off Craigslist two are 29” and two are 25”. These are not the lengths I’m using for my design but the bars came w/ all the ends I wanted to use… I’ll hack and slash em up until I get my desired lengths.
I decided to go w/ variable rate springs (what the heckÂ….. If I no likeyÂ…. IÂ’ll go w/ linearsÂ…. gotta try)
Got a S-Blazer gas tank to mount behind the axle.
Notched the frame (cuz I can), but also cuz I wanted to mount the gas tank as high as possible. IÂ’m a sheetmetal fabricator, so I planned on fabbing a raised bed floor. I still plan on using this truck to haul crap in the bed (like maybe items over 300 lbs would be nice)
I decided to be totally original and use Iroc 16” wheels instead of the non-fitting Am. Racing Nitros I have on there now (3 ¾ bs wasn’t working for me, esp. since it’ll be lower).

FRONT- For now, I just wanna get the rear done and drive it for the summer house projects. So all I’m probably gonna do is get 2” coils some Bilsteins or IAS shocks and a blazer front sway bar…. oh and if I have the $$, a 12:1 power steering box and convert from the PITA manual…. Not an easy find at the pull-a-parts so far.
After winter 2009 sets in, IÂ’ll hopefully had a chance to research further mods for the front end and have a good idea on how much $$$ my budget will allow. You guys will definitely be needed for my decisions for this portion of the build (if you are willing?). There are just too many choices for me to make any decisions right now. Budget will be a major contributing factor to the front end (aside from knowledge). I also am curious to see how my transmission will hold up to better traction w/ the new setupÂ… might hafta spend some $$$ to fix design deficienciesÂ…. Which will eat away at the budget for the front upgrades.





IÂ’m kinda a long-winded SOB. Sorry. I look forward to your comments, suggestions and criticisms. I donÂ’t really know any knowledgeable people to bounce my ideas off of when it comes to suspension and steering design. My best friend was my only mentor when it came to automotive questions, but he passed away a few years ago, so IÂ’m attempting at figuring all this stuff out on my own.---Chris

http://welcome. nice to see another budget build.

for your setup, id reccomend hotchkis 80's monte carlo coils instead of the belltech. chould make it ride, handle, etc better. especially with that heavy pig of a v-8 up front.
also, when researching the front end, for a budget build id just go with tall ball joints, tube arms, a blazer front and rear bar, moog problem solver LCA bushings, and call it a day. effectively my setup, only with tall lowers and different springs.

im looking forward to seeing the stchell link when you get it done.

on the steering box, go for an IROC camaro or ZQ8 S10 box. not quite 12:1, but plenty quick for the street and autocross course. little too quick if you ask me for high speed track days.

Having run IROC wheels, use a 3/8 spacer up front with longer studs, and a 1 inch spacer in the rear (on a stock length axle. dunno what you would need on yours). makes them fit better, and look right. also, you can stuff 245/50/16's on all 4 corners.

lastly, dont forget to pay attention to weight distribution while youre doing all this. with a v-8, these trucks get awfully nose heavy. i see youre going with a rear most blazer tank. id also reccoment a battery relocation, and a hardcore underhood weight reduction program. get it closer to a 50/50 distribution.


Oh, and use www.photobucket.com for your image hosting. then just copy and paste the img code right into your posts. works like a champ.
hope that helps
Michael

Here it is as of yesterday:

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/S10066.jpg)

Heres a coupla the engine... don't laugh!!! It's got almost 30,000 miles w/ this configuration. I didn't do this for looks, it was all about getting r done back then.

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/S10063.jpg)

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/S10064.jpg)

Actually it's okay to laugh.

dusterbd13 wrote:
welcome. nice to see another budget build.

for your setup, id reccomend hotchkis 80's monte carlo coils instead of the belltech. chould make it ride, handle, etc better. especially with that heavy pig of a v-8 up front.
also, when researching the front end, for a budget build id just go with tall ball joints, tube arms, a blazer front and rear bar, moog problem solver LCA bushings, and call it a day. effectively my setup, only with tall lowers and different springs.

im looking forward to seeing the stchell link when you get it done.

on the steering box, go for an IROC camaro or ZQ8 S10 box. not quite 12:1, but plenty quick for the street and autocross course. little too quick if you ask me for high speed track days.

Having run IROC wheels, use a 3/8 spacer up front with longer studs, and a 1 inch spacer in the rear (on a stock length axle. dunno what you would need on yours). makes them fit better, and look right. also, you can stuff 245/50/16's on all 4 corners.

lastly, dont forget to pay attention to weight distribution while youre doing all this. with a v-8, these trucks get awfully nose heavy. i see youre going with a rear most blazer tank. id also reccoment a battery relocation, and a hardcore underhood weight reduction program. get it closer to a 50/50 distribution.


Oh, and use www.photobucket.com for your image hosting. then just copy and paste the img code right into your posts. works like a champ.
hope that helps
Michael

Thanks guys. I've read many of your posts in other forums. You've ALL taught me much and gave me many things to research (in other words there were many posts WAY over my head!)... but I am learning. I can actually understand some of them now (or so I think).

Thanks for your guidance Michael. Your suggestions are great. While I wait for my few remaining parts for the rear (making some bushings outta delrin), I am studying up on getting the front stiffened up, so I can get a battle plan & spend more $$.

I actually think it might be a good idea to install all the front components 1st, so I have a definite ride height to base the rear off of. I'm not exactly sure which springs to use as of yet. Therefore the front height is a sorta wild guess at this point.

I was gonna post more pics but they seem BIG. Should I try to resize them before I post more??

post em.

as far as the front/rear, your plan makes sense. especially if you cant get the ride height with the satchell high enough to match your front ride height.

i know adam (hectorM52) used the hotchkis setup, and loves the way it rides and the damn thing is low. hes got an LT1.

hope that helps
Michael

Here is a compressed sequence of what I've done since the last week of January. I've changed my plans numerous times & have second guessed myself even more.

front ride height before the demolition began:

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/S10001.jpg)

... and the rear:

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/S10002.jpg)

Removed bed... this is what I saw:

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/S10007.jpg)

boxed:

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/S10023.jpg)

assembling notch:

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/S10025.jpg)

welded up almost:

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/S10057.jpg)

got the tank located:

(http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv144/journeyman66/S10044.jpg)

This is about how it sits at the moment. Waiting sux.

I want this bastard roadworthy by May 1st. I'll be bringing my bed to my sheetmetal shop where I work, and raise the floor. Might do that THIS weekend. It will be made from scratch. The existing bed floor and fender wells are all dented up & not worth reusing. I got a sheet of 18 ga diamond plate leftover from a fab project.... I might decide to implement that freebie.

QUESTION/OPINIONS please:

Should I box in the frame the resta the way? I keep flip-flopping this decision.

yup. box it, run your exhaust, fuel lines, etc. then, use some steel and triangulate the crap outta it. the stiffer the frame, the better a suspension works. im planning on 1 inch diameter, 1/4 wall tubing done in X's for mine. if i ever get that far that is. but then id need a blazer tank, 3 link, coil overs, raised bed floor, etc.

anyway, do it, re-inforce it, and rock.

Michael

Sound like you have put a lot of thought into the truck.

In my efforts to stay within my $1000 budget for this phase. I decided to see what happens by cutting a coil outta the springs to see if it would drop it down a little until the front upgrade later this year. Also was looking forward to the much needed higher rate. They are 4 cyl. springs, which just plain suck for the pig V8 motor.

I succeeded in lowering it a half inch. Rolling Eyes

I can't feel any difference by bouncing the front end. The whole fact that I can still bounce it tells me it's not gonna be adequate rate increase anyhow. My mustang hardly gives at all when I put my weight on the front corners. So I figure I'm not very close for the type of ride I'm looking for. I'm not cutting any more due to the fact I don't wanna mess w/ the frequency any further, time to open the wallet I guess. Time to surf some research first. Hmmmm......springs?........ spindles?............

Opinions?

belltech 2" springs are stiffer than the stock zq8 srpings from what I've gathered, which probably puts them a little above the stock Z85 even, but shorter. Teh hotchkiss g-body springs are the stiffest from what I've read as well, but still not as stiff as I'd personally like for my truck(when I in fact get around to getting it, buying a hosue ATM) becasue of the roughly 1.5:1 motion ratio in the front end. I've got the parts list assembled with 450#/in springs right now, and that's assuming I go with an iron block aluminum top end, aluminum radiator, AC and manual brakes with power steering. That is also assuming a custom 1.375" 400#/in swaybar. If weight goes up at all, I'll probably bump to a 450#/in swaybar and keep the springs, unless I get past 1000# per side on the front, then I'll bump to the 550# springs and go back to the lighter swaybar.

Because of geometry contraints I woulnd't use a spring shorter than a 2" drop springs, for more drop I would say get a drop spindle, then a longer lower balljoint, upper won't affect ride height, but will help geometry still. and if that 4.5" of drop isn't enough, then there's something wrong with your geometry measurements, because camber gain starts at about 1.5" of spring with upper and lower tall ball joints.

hotchkis fronts, tall ball joints, UB uppers, and be done with it. ZQ8 sway bars heim jointed. big ass brakes.

coils arent that much, neither are the rest of the parts. except the brakes. you could probably do the whole front end for about 500-600, and be happy.

sould give you around 2.5-3 inch drop.
check out adams truck (hectorm52) on pro-touring.com or s-seriesforum.com handles good, supposedly doesnt ride that bad, looks great at the height hes at.

Micahel

^^^^^^

Yeah, what he said...

I bunch of guys are going with this latest setup - tall lower BJ's, tall upper BJ's, tubular uppers. Get the caliper adapters from Bad94, source you some C5 brakes, modified hubs and you got a decent front end. Of course you've still got all the auxiliary items too (steering box, sway bar, moving parts, etc...).

If you're on a budget, then just go with the "suspension" or "brakes." Then save and do the other later.

Regarding the springs up front - I think it partly depends on your weight up there... My LT1 motor is pretty far "forward" compared to a couple others so I think it adds a pound or two of extra weight and the springs handle it nicely. By no means would I call it stiff. The "ride" is actually pretty supple.

Overall I'd say "above average" set of springs. But they're not your end-all be-all springs for AutoX when it comes to iron-block V8 S10's. I have a bit of body roll in those SHARP turns. Hopefully my latest upgrade to a 33mm sway bar will help that. And the fact that I've gotten rid of some more weight up front too (relocated battery, got rid of accessory bracket in lieu of relocation bracket for PS & ALT, aluminum reservoirs, etc).

Anyway, long story made short...Get the Hotchkis for a decent ride with above average handling for your V8 S10!

I'm looking at his hectorm52's gallery in s-series forum. Finding your parts list has been a futile effort so far, hector.
That's a lot of $$$ in that front end. More than I'm spending. I want to make sure I'm understanding everything you guys are suggesting.

For his suspension, I see:
-ATX spindles (not 4 me)
-Tubular lowers & adj. uppers
-Tall ball joints ?
-Those must be the Hotchkis springs? I assume they are the 1" drop springs? For what vehicle?

Right now my spindles are stock..... are you guys suggesting to keep them stock, purchase your recommended parts, and I'll have a 2-3" drop from the current height?

I'd be happy to surf the appropriate research if you guys point me to a link and/or part #s. There is just too much conflicting info when using the search fuction on some of these other sites.

I would like to make this current upcoming purchase apply to the full upgrade I'll do after the summer is over. I don't really want to purchase anything that I'll end up not using for the later upgrade.

Umm, yeah, sorry. I have a front suspension thread on pro-touring.com that's full of all the info you are looking for.

-ATS tall g-body spindles. Yes. w/ C5 brakes attached.
-SPC Tubular Lowers. SPC Uppers aren't really tubular.
-Standard Howe ball joints. The spindles are already tall so you don't want the tall BJ's.
Hotchkis G-Body springs. Are they 1" drop? I think I got more out of them than that. Remember that the 1" is advertised for a g-body not our trucks.

Parts list:

Tall ball joints

2" drop spindle

Hotchkiss V8 monte carlo springs

Tubular upper control arm(UB machine is the cheapes I think)

Junkyard Zq8 sway bars(front and rear)

Shocks(don't think we've touched on them yet, from what I can tell the edelbrocks are the best value)

Yes, what he said...

You're gonna be pretty low with this setup. Not drag the rockers low but I think pretty low...

I would get those spindles cut down and add the C5 brakes while you are at it. I spent less than $150 on my calipers used off a Vette forum.

Good shtuff fellas... thanks!

My funds are running dry for this phase. In fact I'm gonna prolly go over budget w/ my next purchase. IMO from what ya all told me, that my best bet is to get the spindles right now, install them and drive the beast for the summer projects at home. It looks like they will get me a lil lower than the Hotchkis springs by themselves (?) & I also believe the spindles will be the cheaper route (quickly shopped around). But, I MIGHT need wheel spacers for the front it seems (opinions vary) and if so, I'd hafta get longer studs too. HMMMM maybe it won't be cheaper. What else am I not considering? ((Chasis Tech spindles from ebay look the best value so far))

I gots me some Doetsch Nitro Slammer shocks for $39 each to get me around this summer. I should be able to Craigslist these after I'm done w/ them, when I make the further upgrades.

FYI, finding zq8 parts at the wrecking yards around here is like searching for the holy grail... hehe

By your last statement, I'm assuming you're referring to sway bars...

All 98+ Blazer 2wd have the 33mm bar if I'm not mistaken.

You need to check out this thread...

http://www.s-seriesforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84961

Mostly been looking for a bolt on steering gear/pitman arm from the zq8.... but would get the sways if still there. I'm prefering to locate either a Monte SS box or Extreme cuz they are identical in degrees of movement (39*). I don't think I can even use a rear sway from zq8 cuz of my 8" rear. Though if the truck is set up right, I *shouldn't* need it. The blazer sways are plentiful around here.
I'm probably gonna forego the steering box upgrade on this phase and pony up for the spindles instead. Manual steering isn't fun w/ all that front ballast. Shoul;d be able to get the sway for cheap